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GLCPA GLCPA London Leagues
Waterloo Pool League - A Captain's request for an EGM.
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  Waterloo Pool League - A Captain's request for an EGM.
by: PineapplePete, 07-12-2010 06:34 PM (#1)

To all captains,

I seek an extraordinary general meeting (EGM) of the WPL committee to clarify the current application of the rules of postponement of matches.

Last week, under pressure from Jerry, I allowed him to postpone the Pineapple v The Jacks (30/11/2010) fixture as he called me mid-afternoon on the match day to say that he might have difficulty fielding a team. He did say that some team members were on standby. He then later confirmed by text at 1550hrs that one team member was ill, so the fixture needed to be postponed. I said at the time that we had a full team and should proceed with the game. But in a sporting gesture, I allowed the postponement.
Jerry did allow captains to postpone as long as it was before 1800hrs.

Sadly, one captain's sporting gesture is another captain's opportunity.

Today (07/12/2010), exactly the reverse has happened when one of our team text me at 1430hrs informing that he was ill and could not play. With two other players out of London. I sought to postpone. Initial text messages were sent out at 1555hrs, and the final decision at 1715hrs.
The Whoosh captain pressured for a 12-0 walkover, so I was forced to allow the fixture to proceed knowing that I maybe have 4 players ( I stress 'maybe') who I can guarantee will turn up. If they do not turn up, the match will be handed to The Whoosh 12-0.

Contact with Jerry elicited the reply that due to the timings, the opposing captain would be justified in claiming the match. The irony here is not lost upon me.

There is a grey area here as last week Jerry allowed captains to postpone up to 1800hrs, whereas I learned today that the cut-off time should be 1200hrs. I have searched the whole WPL website, and the rules are not displayed there.

The motion I submit to the committee, is that the letter of the law should apply equally across all teams and at all times; and that should Team captains elect to claim a match under the league rules, then they should do so without feeling that they are labelled 'unsportsmanlike'. The rules are there to be used in times of dispute, this is one of those times.

As such, The Pineapple will seek to claim a 12-0 walkover for their match against the Jacks of the 01/12/2010.

I suggest that as we are mid-winter now, this EGM should be held this Sunday before the Xmas Singles at JFKs. So that all team captains know where they stand should we have continued winter illnesses and poor weather.

Please add to this thread if you support this motion and EGM, thank you.

kind regards

Peter
(Pineapple Captain).
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RE: Waterloo Pool League - A Captain's request for an EGM.
by: The Doctor, 08-12-2010 09:56 AM (#2)

Dear Peter

This does indeed seem like an unfortunate set of circumstances, but I cannot see (in my capacity as chair of the Waterloo league) that this constitutes a matter for an extraordinary meeting of the committee. My thoughts on this are as follows:
(1) Presumably, there is no issue from you or Jim on the result from the Wooosh! game, which was played and which thus stands at 10.2;
(2) So, presumably you are principally concerned now with claiming a 12-0 against The Jacks for last week.
If that is the case, you would have to appeal against the result (postponement) in the usual way. Your appeal will be heard by an independent panel of committee members. You can formally state your grounds for appeal in a letter to the secretary and a meeting will be set up at a due date by the committee to hear it. As the secretary is party to the appeal he will not be involved in the decision making panel which hears the appeal.
I'm afraid you are not in a position to call for an extraordinary meeting of the committee because if I recall correctly you are not a committee member, and I would not think that this is a committee matter per se. The committee can execute the usual procedures on receipt of your appeal.
The matter for discussion would be specifically related to your match from last week, where the game was postponed late in the day due to a decision taken by the committee to waive the usual requirements for postponements in the light of the weather conditions, which could not have been foreseen sufficiently in advance to satisfy the usual rules. The panel would have to decide whether these exceptional circumstances did indeed effect your match.
I hope I have understood things correctly. Again, I'm sorry for the trouble this may have caused you.
Best wishes
Darren
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RE: Waterloo Pool League - A Captain's request for an EGM.
by: SpringHeeledJim, 09-12-2010 12:05 AM (#3)

Hi, Jim from Wooosh! here.

Firstly Pete, i'd like to congratulate you on fielding a team last night, in difficult circumstances, and in the sporting and respectful manner in which we discussed the options from the perspectives of both our teams, and in terms of the WPL rules, as we understand them, and we did our best in the interests of the game/sportsmanship etc under the circumstances. I know you already know my views, but i'll share them here for the benefit of others.

1) My understanding is that, due to exceptional weather conditions, a league decision was made to allow captains to postpone their matches up until 6pm on the matchday last Tuesday. This decision taken around mid afternoon on the matchday. Team captains were instructed to contact their opposing counterparts to intimate this, and inform the league secretary as common courtesy. Wooosh! did this along with others.

This was, in my opinion, an excellent decision by the league, as we have plenty of catch-up weeks ahead wherby matches can be played, with teams able to select from fully available squads, thus pretecting the integrity of the matches/results. Also, players safety had to be taken into consideration, not just getting to the matches, but getting home, with transport issues a potential problem - the forecast was bad, and a decision had to be made timeously, under these circumstances, 6pm was acceptable in my view.

2) My understanding of normal league postponement requirements are that teams must inform the league secretary and opposing captain by 12 noon on the matchday if they require a postponement due to being unable to field a team, for whatever reason. Teams are allowed to do this upto twice a season. A perfectly good rule, again timeously.

3) Only 4 players are required to field a team and play a match.

4) Yesterdays postponement request from Pineapple Pete was too late, I knew i was at liberty to claim a 12-0 win, and clarified this with Jerry, who reminded me i did not HAVE to claim it, and that Pineapple Pete would have the right to appeal if i did in any case (though we would be merely following the rules).

5) as it was after 5pm that i was informed of this request, i felt it too late to agree to a postponement, given my players would not have sufficient time to reorganise their plans etc, and so felt we either play the match or claim a 12-0 win, as per the rules. Upon speaking with Pineapple Pete it emerged he was likely to be able to field 4 players, and so we agreed to play (bearing in mind i could have claimed the match 12-0).

Obviously, it would not have been in my teams interests to postpone the match, when the Pineapple could then field a full strength team, on the new date, and make a proper match of it! This much is obvious, but is not the motivation behind my not accepting a last-minute postponement. The veracity & integrity of the rules, and more importantly the disruption to my players is my only real concern.

6) My team are part of a league to play pool matches, and i endeavour to play matches on the match date whenever possible, not claim meaningless, pointless 12-0 victories, using the rules...as my team is unlikely to win anything, and just want to play and be competitive.

7) I would have had no guilty concience whatsoever if i had claimed a 12-0 win, for the following 4 reasons:

a) There is a postponement rule in place which protects both teams, the catering requirements and integrity of the match results.
b) Pineapple Pete knew the day before he only had 4 players, so could have used one of his 2 postponements then, and given plenty of notice to all, and legitimately postponed the match, as playing with 4 players gives a really poor chance to win a match in any case. (though i applaud him for trying to fullfill the fixture using his 4 players availble), but i'd've though a postponement was your best option Pete, as soon as you knew you were so short.
c) Your players should know that they need to let you know before, say, 1145am at the latest on a matchday, if they're calling off, if at all possible, so that you are in a position to postpone a fixture legitimately, by the rules.
d) You are at liberty to sign 10 players to have a full compliment in your squad to cover such situations, as all teams are, and so it was your own teams disadvantage not having signed a full 10 players. You know every player in London Pineapple Pete, as a county player, so i'm sure you could sign 10 easily.

Also, in retrospect, you did manage to sign players on the night, another WPL rule, so this enabled you to field 6 players in the end, with the last player you signed on the night the winner of one of your 2 frames! This rule gave you another avenue of flexibility to help your team fullfil the fixture and field a full line-up. A good rule i think also.

I would conclude in saying that the current postponement rules as they are seem fine.

I understand your frustrations Pineapple Pete, you're a top guy, but i'm afraid that is how i see it.

These are the facts of the matter as i understand them, if i'm wrong about last weeks postponement issue, or there are other matters that affect your match last week Pineapple Pete, then i'm sure a short meeting will clear these issues up, and i'll happilly agree to what ever the majority of captains/league officials feel is correct.

The integrity of The Pineapple 2-10 Wooosh! match last night is undoubted.

I am at the Mosconi Cup this weekend, and so will not be at the WPL Christmas Open on Sunday, and i'm not on the committee. If you wish someone to attend any meeting on Wooosh!'s behalf, let me know and i'll see if someone will attend.

SpringHeeledJim, very much maligned & misunderstood...Winking
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